#5: A Father's Anguish - Part 1
What happens when you find yourself becoming uncontrollably angry as your young child’s unhappiness is mounting by the minute?
“My tendency is when it’s painful, I start to get angry.”
In this episode, guest Jeff Friesen, a new father, is tormented by his outburst of anger and begins to seek its source. He is on the trail of a legacy he does not want to pass on to his daughter, looking for a way for both of them to express their feelings safely.
Listen to this first episode in our two-part podcast and return next week to hear Jeff’s surprising solution.
Note: This podcast was recorded on February 8, 2020.
Listen here:
Transcript
So I picked her up early and I was watching her until Dao got home and started off okay, but she just got more tired, and we got into the time where just really needed Dao, and she was starting to melt down with everything. And I [exhale] saw this buildup, this building, and I just, the pain for me was building at the same time because I saw like, I mean . . . I feel like the pain was real and there, uh, it, it also turned into self-judgment and also worry about the future, like all at the same time. And anger. Right, right. Like, and my tendency is when it's painful, I start to get angry.
Welcome to this episode of The Last Healer, a podcast dedicated to helping us return to our original nature.
With us today is Dr. Stuart Bernstein, working with long-time student Jeff Friesen.
Dr. Bernstein (01:34):
Jeff, you said, uh, you have no shortage of things you'd like to address today. Ahh, and you just commented you're a little bit nervous, so please, uh, good foundation, I'd say. Let's —
Jeff Friesen:
[laughing] Nervousness, uncertainty. That's a really good, yeah. Um, well, so last week I talked about the situation with um, Ongsa, uh, our 15-month-old daughter who had recently moved into the toddler room at her daycare, and it was, um, an unsafe environment. Um, we, we personally saw physical abuse, um, we saw signs of physical abuse when she was at home, not from the teachers but from the kids. Um, and just when we were in there, it just felt like a very unsafe environment with, with some of the other kids. Um, so we, we pulled her out, which was, which, without having options was hard, but we, um, just figured out something. And she was in there for a total of like about two-and-a-half weeks or three weeks.
And we started seeing almost immediately, like signs at home that were really heartbreaking. Um, and, you know, I know all toddlers change and she's in a new environment, but we could see, she was, um, learning from other kids, you know.
Dr.B (03:42):
Would you go ahead and expound on that?
JF:
Just, um — [laughing] well they mentioned mean face last week. She, she, she learned a mean face, but you know, it, it's partly adorable, partly sad, but it just, it's hard to explain because I feel like it's easy to, um, just dismiss as normal toddler behavior, but we know her and we know that these things just immediately started happening. And so some of the things were like, um, um, she's pointing at stuff, right? And we're pretty good about like figuring out what she wants. We give it to her if, if, if it's okay. Um, if she doesn't, now, if she doesn't get it right away, she starts melting down, like the kind of meltdown that she's never done before where she just like, cries, arches her back. Right? So you can't hold onto her. So you set her on the floor, she's crying, like face down or on her back, like that kind of just nonstop crying on the, on the smallest things, you know. Um, she's when, when she's been in pain before. Um, with like ear infections, she's cried, but it's a different kind of crying. She's never had these kinds of meltdowns and just within like two weeks, it's a fairly regular occurrence. Um, so that's, that's one example, but I mean just—
Dr.B (05:33):
She's hurting.
JF:
Yeah. Yeah. No capacity it seems like for, um, how would you say it — just figuring out stuff, um, just so easily frustrated about—
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
—everything.
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
So we've had, yeah, just these like many, many meltdowns since then, so, yeah. Okay, I'll, I'll stop there. You were asking—
Dr.B:
Thank you.
JF:
—what we're seeing at home.
Dr.B (06:24):
And how's it all making you feel?
JF:
It's so hard because — I feel like we didn't keep her safe, you know. I feel like we didn't keep, I mean, it's our job to feed her, clean her, make sure she's warm enough. Like, you know, like those are our responsibilities and I, I didn't realize like keeping her safe was, I don't know, it sounds obvious in retrospect, but I like, I didn't, like realize I had to be concerned about her safety while at school—
Dr.B:
With the little ones. With little ones.
JF (07:21):
Yeah. Right, right. If she's out on the street or, [laughter] right. Like with cars or if there's something, I mean, of course we're watching out for, you know, she loves to like climb around on rocks, and like we're always spotting her, and climb up on furniture, you know, as long as it's safe, for trying to keep her safe, right? But like in that situation, we just delegated to the daycare, and even though we saw a couple things, we were happening ourselves like that, like her getting hurt by other kids, we, um, we were a little shocked and not, yeah. Okay. Not knowing what to do, but, so yeah, I guess how I'm feeling is just like, there's self-judgment, there's like pain. I, I, I don't know if this is, you know, I don't know. It might sound ridiculous, but I don't know if she can come back from this in some ways, right?
Dr.B:
Yes.
JF:
Like has she been, have we created a wound in her that's now part of her personality?
Dr.B (08:51):
Let your energy drop down. Let me know when you're there.
JF:
Okay.
(9:22) Yeah, I'm there.
Dr.B:
Okay.
(09:31) What's the reality? — Have you created a wound that cannot be healed?
JF:
I'm not sure. I — a little bit. Yeah, I, I — I feel like there's a little bit of that there that's gonna stay with her.
Dr.B (10:55):
That said, what is your responsibility?
JF:
Um, I, I feel like our responsibility, my responsibility, Dao's responsibility is to be as, as there for her as possible, stay connected with her—
Dr.B:
Um-hum.
JF:
—as possible moving forward. To, to, like, if she is melting down, just be there with her and not judge it. Not get mad at her. Uh, not, not, um, get mad ourselves. Just, you know, accept that she is hurting in some way or another, um, that she needs to express that and to be there and just allow her to do that with us.
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
And I didn't do that. Uh, I, what I just described, I feel like is what I would like to do and I didn't, uh, this week.
Dr.B (12:51):
Please say more.
JF:
On Wednesday, I think, um, I picked her up early from school. Uh, we got her back in the infant room, which was, which is a safe, much safer environment and, but we're still picking her up early so that we, just, because all the kids are, and teachers and everybody's tired at that time and more tired at that time. So I picked her up early and I was watching her until Dao got home and started off okay, but she just got more tired, and we got into the time where just really needed Dao, and she was starting to melt down with everything. And I [exhale] saw this buildup, this building, and I just, the pain for me was building at the same time because I saw like, I mean, I feel like the pain was real and there, uh, it, it also turned into self-judgment and also worry about the future, like all at the same time.
Dr.B:
Wow.
JF:
And anger. Right, right. Like, and my tendency is when it's painful, I start to get angry. And so I was starting to, um, transition from like an okay place, like a safe place for Ongsa to, like a safe person for Ongsa to be with, to, to express herself, to let it out, to where my brain was just like not, or my whole body was just, it was in sort of a adrenal state and, um, eventually just got so bad. I lost my temper. I kicked a hole in our wall, um, by the, and this was just like within five minutes of Dao getting home.
Dr.B:
Wow, ouch.
JF (15:32):
And she, Dao, like, cause I was, I was doing okay up until that point. Not okay. I was, I was building up, but I, I lost it about five minutes before she got home, and she came, I heard her running up the stairs while both Ongsa screaming and I'm screaming, [laughter]. It's not funny. Don't laugh. [laughing] Um, I, I would never hurt her. I never have felt like I would. My reaction, even though I feel like I kind of lose my, all reason, I either direct it at like a wall or something like that or yelling, but like, I never feel like she's in danger, but it's still exactly what she doesn't need. She needs a safe place, like, and she needs me to be safe, and I, I did not give her that, um, on Wednesday.
And it's really hard on, on Dao. It's really hard on me. I feel like Ongsa is, it's, it's gotta be hard on her. I want her to be able to come to me and feel safe and to just be herself, and I want to be the adult. [laughing] Right? Like we, I felt like I was, you know, and when I say, like did, does she have a wound there that's going to stay with her? Like I, the reason I say that I feel like there's, there is a little wound is because I feel like I'm still dealing with my wounds, you know? Like, that's why I acted just like she did, you know?
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
I'm just stronger and can kick a wall, right? And—
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
—but it was not, it was just a pure emotional, like release of everything. And you know, I, I, um, that comes from somewhere way back, I feel like, and so, my, you asked what my responsibility is. It is to, I feel very strongly that I need to show her another way of handling this. I need to be there when she's melting down. I need to be safe. But I honestly haven't. I, I, I don't know how to do that in those situations very well. Um, but that's what I want.
Dr.B (19:08):
And the key word I was getting was you start, you begin feeling your pain.
JF:
Yeah. It was started as pain. I felt the pain before the anger.
Dr.B:
Yes. And for me that, there it is, that's the key. Can you go back to that?
JF:
Yeah. I was holding her. Um, we were looking out the window towards the driveway. I kind of now, I didn't, I don't know if we were just like watching, waiting for Dao to come home maybe [laughing], but I could just, just the pain of just imagining her dealing with this for the rest of her life, like I have. Um, and, and that, you know, I, I, I know she's going to go through difficult stuff as a, as a kid. Um, there is like adversity, but like this was unnecessary, and had I been more vigilant, we could have prevented a lot of this.
Dr.B (20:37):
So can you connect, can you feel that pain that you were feeling?
JF:
Yeah.
Dr.B:
That day.
JF:
Yeah.
Dr.B:
Can you feel it right now?
JF:
Yeah.
Dr.B:
Can you describe it?
JF:
I feel it in my gut. It feels, nauseating—
Dr.B:
Mmm.
JF:
—feels, um, long, like, uh, like, you know, like if you have a painful memory from 10 or 20 years ago, like that kind of pain, that feels, that lasts a long time.
Dr.B (21:33):
The wound remains.
JF:
Yeah.
Dr.B:
It's like that.
JF:
Yeah, I, but I felt the forward somehow. You know what I mean? Like it felt like this long, deep, long-lasting pain.
Dr.B:
Yes.
JF:
And her, um—
Dr.B (21:52):
But it was your pain?
JF:
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr.B:
Okay. And her pain, did her pain bring up your pain?
JF:
Yeah. It feels very much the same.
Dr.B (22:22):
Anything more about that pain? Go right into it. All the way into it.
JF:
I dunno. I'm [sighs]—
Dr.B:
Including the nausea.
JF:
Well, I just remember before it started turning into anger, um, that it, uh, hard, like, hard to swallow—
Dr.B:
Um-hum.
JF:
—could feel it in my mouth. Yeah, nauseating.
Dr.B (24:03):
And it's a familiar sense?
JF:
Honestly, no, I feel like I, I don't stay in the pain long enough.
Dr.B:
Okay.
JF:
I know it's old—
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
—but I don't stay in the pain long enough. I, I—
Dr.B:
That you get so, that you switch to the anger to take you out of the pain.
JF:
I switch to anger sooner.
Dr.B:
Okay.
JF:
Cuz I remember when, for this pain I was, I wasn't angry yet.
Dr.B:
Okay.
JF:
I knew, I sorta knew it was coming, but I, I stayed in the pain as long as I could.
Dr.B:
Okay.
JF:
But I, so, thank you, Ongsa, for letting me feel that because I knew I was trying to hang on and not get angry, for her, you know?
Dr.B (25:05):
So let yourself, allow the luxury of this room. Allow for that, and go, let it, let it be with it as much as you can right now.
JF:
Yeah. I don't know. I feel it in my throat—
Dr.B:
Okay.
JF:
—and my tonsils, my, back of my mouth.
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
It's nauseating. I feel it in my gut.
Dr.B:
What's happening?
JF:
It's — I don't know, it's just, it's there. There's all these other things that kind of pop out of it, like anger or, or self-judgment, but I know that that's not, those are kind of distractions or, [laughs] or—
Dr.B:
Right.
JF:
—you know what I mean? Like they're not the real thing, right? They, they're, they're, they're just trying to like, take me out of the pain.
Dr.B (26:18):
Distractions. Stay with that pain.
JF:
I, I, yeah. I mean, I grew up in an environment like what Ongsa was experiencing, um, at daycare.
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
For, for years.
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
And I would, I would, I would just sit there and have this dread and couldn't wait 'til my mom got home. [laughter] You know? Just like save me, you know?
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
And it was always better when she, when she got home. So, yeah, I remember that dread.
Dr.B (27:34):
Where was the dread?
JF:
Not dread of her coming home—
Dr.B:
No.
JF:
—of just waiting until she came home, you know?
Dr.B (27:41):
And what was catalyzing these feelings before she came home? What was going on?
JF:
Uh, my brother was, um, more on the emotionally abusive side than physically abusive, but—
Dr.B:
Yes.
JF:
—there was some of that also. Um, my stepdad was not safe at all. He was, um, he came home drunk and he drank more.
Dr.B:
Wow. Okay.
JF:
When he got home pretty much every day. So I just wanted to avoid him, uh, to be outside of his, um, view. Um, yeah.
Dr.B (28:33):
So that's very much in you. That's there. It's there right now.
JF:
Yeah.
Dr.B:
You were young.
JF:
Um, yeah, um, that was up until I was about 15.
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
But most of that time—
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
—most of my life. Yeah. Up until 15. Maybe 16. I guess 16.
Dr.B (29:24):
Yeah. Are you feeling that feeling right now?
JF:
I can.
Dr.B:
Go ahead.
JF:
Yeah, right now I don't feel angry about it. I have, [laughs] it's—
Dr.B:
Yeah.
JF:
—it's there, but it, I just feel that dread. It's like, yeah, there was a lot of frustration and anger, like that came up. But it was, yeah, that, that dread and wanting to just kind of hide out.
Dr.B (30:16):
So that feeling is, has accompanied you from, from your childhood?
JF:
Yeah, I do that at night. Even now because like when in, in the evenings before Ongsa goes to bed, Dao's there and Ongsa's there, but Ongsa is hard to, right now at least she's tired. She gets fussy. It's hectic. The uh, the, the kitchen is like a disaster. Like the house is super messy. She, you know, it's, it's hard to—
Dr.B (30:54):
Which isn't, which hasn't been your way.
JF:
No.
Dr.B:
That is, that is not your way.
JF:
No.
Dr.B:
From what I've seen. [laughs]
JF:
Yeah. And I, you know, I don't mind, like I, you know, I don't mind cleaning it all up or whatever, but being in the middle of it and trying to get stuff done, make dinner and make food for tomorrow and go get the, take her bath, like all that is really hectic, and—
Dr.B:
Yes.
JF:
—on top of both Dao and I being tired and on top of Ongsa being fussy and tired and melting down sometimes, it's like, I really just want to hide out. You know—
Dr.B (31:35):
Like you wanted to back then.
JF:
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr.B:
So the difference right now is you're a father—
JF:
Um-hum.
Dr.B (31:52):
—and not only, and this is really, this is huge. It's, it's, you're not only a father for Ongsa. You're, you're a father for this little guy. He's still, it's still there. That wound is still there. What is your responsibility?
Please join us for the conclusion of this conversation in our next podcast episode. Thank you.